"The Devil and The Empress walk into a tarot reading..." sounds like the start of a wickedly good story, and honestly, that’s exactly what this is.
I have to applaud both of you for taking one of the most volatile, emotionally charged topics of our time and turning it into an actual conversation rather than a battlefield. The idea of using tarot as a tool for understanding rather than division? Genius. And the way you both approached it, with depth, honesty, and a genuine willingness to see beyond the surface, makes this one of the most compelling tarot exchanges I’ve seen.
There’s something powerful in this dynamic: The Empress, believing in inclusivity and growth, meets The Devil, who challenges everything, tests convictions, and reminds us that the chains we wear are often self-imposed. And in the middle? The Two of Pentacles, the eternal dance of duality, balancing opposing forces, not to merge them, but to acknowledge that both exist and must be navigated.
What makes this reading shine isn’t just the insights, but the way you held space for each other’s truths without needing to annihilate the other’s perspective. That’s rare. It’s easy to talk about unity when everyone agrees, it’s another thing entirely to stand in disagreement and still see the humanity across the table.
This wasn’t just a tarot spread, it was a masterclass in holding paradox. The Devil, not as evil, but as the great awakener. The Empress, not just as nurturer, but as the force that must make space for evolution. And most importantly, the recognition that neither side has the whole picture, but together, they create something richer.
Absolute brilliance in concept, execution, and spirit. 🔥♠️♣️✨
Wow, Dea, thank you so much!!! I am still catching my breath after reading your above 😀
What you express in para 3 above, is the reading in a nutshell, I could have saved a great deal of electronic ink if I had seen it that clearly! 🤣
In all seriousness, I love your analysis above, not just for its highly complimentary tone, but also for highlighting the main reasons why Donny and I prepared this reading, and wanted to post it. As I say early in the post, the reading was Donny's idea, posting it was mine, and I am beyond delighted that we were able to find so much in the cards that helped us understand more about what happened and is happening... Deeply indebted to Donny for working with me on such a sensitive topic that we both hold strong beliefs about, keeping it real, and remaining friends.
This was what I hoped would happen, "And most importantly, the recognition that neither side has the whole picture, but together, they create something richer."
Thank you very much for taking the time to stop by and read this post, and for your wonderful warm words about it above 🙏🏼😊🕯️
Phil, you know how I appreciate your view, right? Excellent article, both of you. I've got something to say about the Devil and the Empress, by the way. The Empress is an ideal mum, you know, the kind that loves her kids regardless, she's this supportive, appreciative and wonderful kind that is needed when the kids go trans, gay or whichever way. I think, for a man it's a glorious card, for it demonstrates understanding, compassion and care, as much as peacefulness and also, it demonstrates how you really view yourself in that friendship, and that is a caregiver.
As for the Devil, subjugation is there, but it is, mostly, a willing submission and conscious bondage. Of course, devil lures us into that trap of hallucinating, intoxicating freedom, but we're happy to stay there, as long as our illusions are fed and nurtured. The devil offers a seemingly easy way out, while bargaining for a price, which in the end would be too high. He allows to be free and outspoken as long as it corresponds to his ideas. But as he always twists the ideas and bends them, we remain bound, enjoying this relationship, fuelled by self indulgence, greed and ...lies.
I feel I had to say that, cause this spread to me is wonderfully multidimensional and analyses your relationship in several ways.
Helena, thank so much for stopping by and commenting, I agree with you that this spread is 'wonderfully multidimensional and analyses [our] relationship in several ways." It has been a fascinating and mind-expanding experience working with Donny on this, and I am pretty sure that there will be further resonances for us both as we now reflect after hitting the deadline for publication! 😀 My sense is that we could both have written even more than we did... but I'm not sure the resulting post wouldn't have broken Substack!
A standout from your excellent observations above is this... "...but we're happy to stay there, as long as our illusions are fed and nurtured." In our exchange, Donny points to this card as preceding XVI·The Tower, and the necessity of that lightning stroke as a generator for change... it is also my belief that XV·The Devil is a non-sustainable position, but an essential part of our journeys towards unifying with divinity, and... everything changes... e.g. I just read in the news that DJT is rolling back the huge tariffs on imports, within hours almost of their imposition, there is a lesson in this somewhere (that will emerge in time) that I suspect will prove far more complex than the simple financial, and border control, incentives related to it... if that makes sense... or, to put it more plainly... what was the real reason?
Well, Devil is the logical predecessor of the Tower, cause we all know- it blows when the pressure gets too high. In this situation, too much is clearly detrimental. Excess leads to ruin, that's what I call the Dorian Gray rule. You cannot get away with everything, and in regards to His Idiotic Majesty and his court, the pressure is indeed approaching maximum. To clarify this, id suggest an additional position for the spread, which would be the root of ruin, or masked agenda- as you wish. It is, basically, a card of a hidden influence, that goes well with every spread. Hidden inner / outer influence is a helpful thing, based on my 16 years tarot experience.
Yeah, great point, and wouldn't we all like to see the picture in DJT's attic! Or maybe not... 😀
Yes, I take your point about the hidden card, it is very useful indeed! In our exchange I didn't, uniquely for me, feel that there was a hidden agenda between Donny and I, I felt everything was on the table.
A hidden card looking at MAGA, though, is a different post, and I feel that it would inflame things here that I am determined to avoid. So, respectfully, and with all love, can I ask you not to comment on this post with a card reading for it? Happy to discuss this privately if you feel I am being unfair, ok, but I don't want to turn this post into something else 🙂🙏🏼🕯️
Naaaah, good sir, I wasn't referring to magaaaaa stuff. It's just an observation in regards to all situations. There s always something we don't or can't quite see, right?) I have no desire to discuss politics:)
Yes, I love the 'hidden' card, 'what is unknown at this time?', 'what was unknown back at the turn of the last century?' (yep, haven't forgotten!). It has a great and mysterious quality to it, and in a live reading it can be a dynamite realisation for both Reader and Seeker if used at the right time (for me, usually at the end of a reading...).
I can't put into words all of what I just read but this was hard for me lol. I wanted to read it because I was curious about the idea of using tarot in a situation like this as well as for helping me understand tarot better. I must say I almost gave up once or twice because I can be reactionary and emotionally charged when I feel like something is unjust. That's something that I want to work on though so I powered through it and to be honest my curiosity got the better of me. I'm glad I finished it! Sorry for rambling this off to you, but your input does a good job of explaining some of the things I picked up here too that i would have a hard time articulating on my own. I believe this tarot layout explains this situation perfectly and your comment helps sum that up very well!
Thank you to Phil and Donny for all the hard work. I as much as I struggled, emotionally, reading it, I think it helped me accomplish exactly what I intended it to.
Side note: I'd also like to add, because this stuck with me the whole time I read this. Living outside of the US doesn't mean you don't really know what's going on and it's not fair to try to use that against someone because you dont like the perspective they are showing you. It's like telling non parents their perspective on something having to do with kids doesn't matter because they don't have kids of their own.
I say this as a parent living in the US. My sister has no kids but yet her perspective is the one I seek out when it comes to kids especially mine lol. She knows enough of the situation to give me good perspective I never thought of because I'm in the middle of it and she has an outside lens. Do I always like what she says or agree with it 100%? Nope. However her perspective has never let me down.
Same goes for people outside of the US. I value those of you in other parts of the world so much because of your perspective of other places I haven't been, as much for what you see of the US from the outside. It's important and i appreciate your perspective. The mention of it in the first place as a means of rebuttal to something someone doesn't want to hear, is very telling.
I don't mean for this to be inappropriate or get too off the topic of tarot but I felt it was worth putting out there given that it did come up in this.
Sorry for the book on your comment, Helena! Your comment really stuck out with me.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting... a book is fine... I love reading!
I'm glad you were able to make it all the way through in the end, and if I am reading you rightly, you got some value from it, too? Which is always my hope either when I am reading, or writing :-)
The spread you enjoyed so much (I think it's brilliant, too!) was Donny's and I felt it worked beautifully for this reading.
Yes, I take your point about living outside of the US. In my case, this has more to do with my not actually facing the reality of day-to-day living in what strikes me at the moment as such an angrily divided nation. I still have an opinion, though, and am willing to share it (at length! :-D) but I do acknowledge the 'back-seat driver-iness' of sharing it, too. I have a very similar problem when I see what is happening in the UK... no longer living there, I feel that my opinion really carries less weight... ultimately, I am keen to avoid the "what do you know, you don't even live here!!!" type of unhelpful responses that are so common... y'know?
I saw a Substack post this very morning from an extremely angry Canadian, following their recent decision to cut ties with the US and I couldn't help feeling that disaster is looming ahead for more than just the US... this, I DO feel strongly about, but I also can't help feeling that the level of anger out there at the moment is so high that people have little interest in finding a solution, but much more in finding a reason to hate angrily... that prompted this post in the first place.
I was intrigued by your point above about being, "reactionary and emotionally charged when I feel like something is unjust" and was wondering how that impacts on your Tarot Readings (if it does)?
Coupling these 2 things together was such a good idea and yes the spread was so great. I loved it. I definitely got some value from it!
(This kind of goes with the value i got from it). I like to try and see both sides of things but boy do I struggle with that and just being angry that people can't see the hatred and lies and wanting to wash my hands of it. I am finding as I age i am very inquisitive and curious about so many things.
But, it's exhausting being here in this mess and being that way and all I see is people hurting people and seeing so many people that don't care. That division between even us and the rest of the world, too. Though, I have seen so many great comments from outside the US saying it's not Americans they are mad at, more so government, and they know many of us want better for everyone and that's amazing because I definitely support them being angry. (it helps me feel supported and somewhat united when all i see is division). I feel we all should be angry on some (hopefully healthy)level. I just know mine can get the better of me and I try to avoid that! This was a good, safe, exercise to try and test myself.
Your post helped me absorb more about the ins and outs of tarot too! I love hearing other people's perspective on the cards. That curiosity really kicks in then. I don't know that my reactionary and emotionally charged side gets involved with my readings. At least that I've noticed. I try to go into it open and ready to reflect. I've also never done one quite like this one you guys wrote about. I think that's why I've been gravitating to tarot so much lately. It helps me think and process as much as settling me down to be more open minded or hear things I'm not quite ready for or just don't want to 🤣.
I throughly enjoyed reading this and found it to be hugely hopeful because it demonstrates how, if we can all approach differences in opinion like this, the world would be a much more harmonious place! I hope others are inspired by this as I have been. Thank you both of you 🙏🏻✨
Thank you very much for commenting! I am really happy that you enjoyed the reading, and also found it inspirational, that is a lovely compliment, thanks so much. I think there is a lot to be said for taking the time to work through our differences in the pursuit of harmony, although, of course it isn't the only approach, it is my preferred one 🙂🙏🏼🕯️
You are very welcome. When I said "us" I was speaking as a collective because it fuels the collective realm. However I own that I found it to be honest and inspiring. Which I think you already knew! Have a Blessed weekend ✨✨
Thank you... I really appreciate those kind words! Yes, I hope it fuels the collective realm in a positive way, I would hate to add to the anger and resentment that is already out there.
Have a wonderful weekend on me, right? Free Wonderful Weekend Voucher attached to this message... 🙏🏼😉
Truly fascinating! Well done both of you! What a journey for you to do and for us to to read. It has opened up a lot for me to consider, ideas and questions. I send you both many Blessings 🙏✨🌱🦋
Thanks so much for such a positive piece of feedback, this was a nervy one to post, and your positivity has really lifted me, thanks, thanks, thanks 🙏🏼
I have read your lovely message after completing my morning weekend yoga flow session and during it I felt a strong wave of golden light wash over me. It was not from my own healing I could feel it from outside of me and not connected to Spirit. Reading your message I can now realise it belonging to you. Massive amounts of thank you!! I return to you Blessings of love and light and golden healing energy 🙏✨🌱🦋✨ have a fantastic weekend!
I have been loving your posts on your yoga flow sessions, and have fallen a little behind on them this week, whilst completing this one. I'm really looking forward to catching up with them over the next couple of days 👍🏼🧘🏼♂️🕯️
Thank you so much for your support Phil, that means a lot to me. Your tarot readings are inspirational to me and I am learning a lot from reading your take on them. Have a blissful weekend, Namaste 🙏✨✨✨
What follows is an exchange on social media between Ana Luisa Hering and Donny... copied and pasted here with permission... it's a good exchange! Enjoy!
Wow… Beautiful discussion and exceptionally mature. Thank you for that! My takes won’t be on individual interpretations but more on some cards and what they may be indicating.
The first that showed up, the Devil, is a treasure trove of nuances. The Devil doesn’t really exist: we ARE it. I believe it stands for parts of ourselves we don’t want to see either because they’re not socially accepted or because they bring us fear. And FEAR is to me, the operative word in all this reading. I’ll tell you how and why I saw that.
First, Phil’s Devil is wrapped, and we can clearly see he cannot fly. But this wrapping keeps him close to earth and somehow, protected. Being a mother, this reminded me A LOT of baby swaddling. Here’s what Wiki says about it:
“Some modern medical studies indicate that swaddling helps babies fall asleep and to remain asleep and helps to keep the baby in a supine position, which lowers the risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).”
It’s a bit like accepting the limitations in exchange for protection. A sacrifice for a safer and reliable future in a way.
Then, we have the Empress. I do acknowledge that this card is seen as the epitome of creation, abundance, Venus, etc. However, I usually see this lady as representing Mother Nature. And we cannot forget that Nature, albeit magnificent, is not all “love and light”. Earthquakes, cyclones, tornadoes, tidal waves, etc. are also manifestations of the Empress. Even the most beautiful spectacle of life, birth, doesn’t come without some painful price. Nothing comes for free. One may wonder why Nature does that and I believe it’s mostly about balance. Shaking things up to go back to stability.
And that’s precisely what the bridge card (2 of Pentacles) brought as a common ground for you two. No pentacle should be dismissed in that juggling. Even opposing views have their weight and should be handled equally (pardon the pun). Not only that; since in your deck (Tarot of the Abyss) the two ladies look the same, it also suggests checking both sides of the same line of thought.
I have to be honest here: although I love the art of the Tarot of the Abyss, I always go back to our trusty RW deck for the 10 of Swords. The impaled man. Now, follow me here: if someone stabs you in the back once, or even twice, you’d try to run, right? Unless you’re sick or already dying, you wouldn’t let TEN Swords be thrown at you. You would look for cover. Or you would fight back. Unless you have no physical strength to run, you would only wait for this fate if you DIDN’T TRUST in your power of fight and resilience. Ultimately, this card often shows when self-esteem is very low, and you just succumb to the circumstances accepting your fate. A bit like the baby in the Devil card. Also, Swords are communication, the word, the info, and MEDIA is literally trying to crush people’s ability to discern, to think for themselves. This intense sword overload intends to turn people into functional idiots. But only if we let them.
Finally, the 5 of Pentacles. This hits home since I live in a poor country and this scene (without the snow) is quite common. The issue here is that the Powers That Be understood that it’s easier to work on the politics of hand me downs, of “welfarism”. It’s a quick fix, much faster and less complicated than to work on the basic structure of society, on education, on jobs, on decent salaries, on slow but steady progress. It’s like that old saying “give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime”. That creates a society who wants to be given help but has no knowledge nor confidence to work for it. Usually, they look for heroes and saviors instead of a person who shows the hard way to success.
Fear. Fear of fighting, fear of not being good enough, fear of rejection. All that is largely exploited by the ones in power. The making of America great again is a neat concept but somewhat contradictory: I’m all for the MAKING, which invites participation of all: but the AGAIN implies that we can go back in time which can’t be done. Ideally, one should see and understand that everything changes, and the handling of these changes must be done in different ways. Learning how is a completely different story though…
Ana Luisa Hering - love this. ❤️ The Devil is incredibly simple. And indecipherably complex. “Nuances” indeed. And perfect for this read.
To the 10 of Swords — I don’t think it’s a matter of allowing the stabbing… to me the 10 is the indicator nothing has stopped this person from arriving where they finally lay to rest. Swords be damned. Wounds be damned. I’ll crawl as far as this path leads me because I believe I need to see it to the end.
And so, The End.
The next cycle is beginning. What new ideas will it bring to Mind? ❤️
Donny Riley, a bit like fighting even if it kills me ? That's an interesting take. Funny you mention that. I'm Brazilian and there's an expression in Portuguese that would translate as "to die on the beach". It's used when you fight for something but lose it at the very last moment. You swim for miles but end up dying on the shore.
Later in the day, and I see that you and Donny have already had a great exchange… thanks for adding your thoughts, which, as always, are great to read.
First… that’s a great observation about XV·The Devil. I totally agree with your point, “The Devil doesn’t really exist: we ARE it”, and feel that embracing it is an essential part of all of our journeys through life at one time or another. At the moment, the energy around this is high for many of us, I feel, because of the hugely emotive movements in the world daily.
Swaddling… wow! Wrapped securely in the comfort of our own bindings… this is a really new idea to me, thanks so much… it is reading comments like this one that made me want to start a Substack in the first place! There is such a lot to this idea, and I will be reflecting on this over the next few days as I work through some stuff for my next post… thanks for lighting my blue touchpaper!
“Nature, albeit magnificent, is not all “love and light””… yes, this was me realising this viscerally as I reflected on this reading and Donny’s observations… there is a legacy Tarot Reader in me that has never properly moved beyond the ‘love and light’ meaning of III·The Empress… another reflection for me here to absorb and develop. Thanks to you both 🙏🏼
Yes, totally take your point about 2 of Pentacles.
I understand what you are saying about the 10 of Swords, and my take on it here (and the use of the Abyss 10 of Swords that I chose for this shuffle) was guided by the purpose of this reading, which was to relate what I saw to the relationship Donny might have felt with this card, given his position in our discussion. I also saw the classic RWS 10 of Swords image when I was preparing the reading, with the Stars and Stripes replacing the red cloth covering the figure, but that felt like a distraction from this reading’s purpose (i.e. political polemic!), so didn’t add that here.
“Usually, they look for heroes and saviors instead of a person who shows the hard way to success.” Yes, I see this argument, and wonder if part of the success of MAGA has been the provision of that hero to so many who are simply exhausted by day-to-day survival, no longer having the will (or time) to learn how to fish. I don’t include Donny in this reasoning, as I know clearly from his reading that this isn’t the case for him… but, I think you’re right, and that energy is definitely out there.
“Ideally, one should see and understand that everything changes, and the handling of these changes must be done in different ways.” Is the critical point here… and to ensure this happens, there has to be some mutual understanding and acceptance of those different ways between those so divided. Which directly relates to the purpose of this reading, thank you!
Thanks, Ana, as always, for such brilliant and thought provoking comments!
"The Devil and The Empress walk into a tarot reading..." sounds like the start of a wickedly good story, and honestly, that’s exactly what this is.
I have to applaud both of you for taking one of the most volatile, emotionally charged topics of our time and turning it into an actual conversation rather than a battlefield. The idea of using tarot as a tool for understanding rather than division? Genius. And the way you both approached it, with depth, honesty, and a genuine willingness to see beyond the surface, makes this one of the most compelling tarot exchanges I’ve seen.
There’s something powerful in this dynamic: The Empress, believing in inclusivity and growth, meets The Devil, who challenges everything, tests convictions, and reminds us that the chains we wear are often self-imposed. And in the middle? The Two of Pentacles, the eternal dance of duality, balancing opposing forces, not to merge them, but to acknowledge that both exist and must be navigated.
What makes this reading shine isn’t just the insights, but the way you held space for each other’s truths without needing to annihilate the other’s perspective. That’s rare. It’s easy to talk about unity when everyone agrees, it’s another thing entirely to stand in disagreement and still see the humanity across the table.
This wasn’t just a tarot spread, it was a masterclass in holding paradox. The Devil, not as evil, but as the great awakener. The Empress, not just as nurturer, but as the force that must make space for evolution. And most importantly, the recognition that neither side has the whole picture, but together, they create something richer.
Absolute brilliance in concept, execution, and spirit. 🔥♠️♣️✨
Wow, Dea, thank you so much!!! I am still catching my breath after reading your above 😀
What you express in para 3 above, is the reading in a nutshell, I could have saved a great deal of electronic ink if I had seen it that clearly! 🤣
In all seriousness, I love your analysis above, not just for its highly complimentary tone, but also for highlighting the main reasons why Donny and I prepared this reading, and wanted to post it. As I say early in the post, the reading was Donny's idea, posting it was mine, and I am beyond delighted that we were able to find so much in the cards that helped us understand more about what happened and is happening... Deeply indebted to Donny for working with me on such a sensitive topic that we both hold strong beliefs about, keeping it real, and remaining friends.
This was what I hoped would happen, "And most importantly, the recognition that neither side has the whole picture, but together, they create something richer."
Thank you very much for taking the time to stop by and read this post, and for your wonderful warm words about it above 🙏🏼😊🕯️
Phil, you know how I appreciate your view, right? Excellent article, both of you. I've got something to say about the Devil and the Empress, by the way. The Empress is an ideal mum, you know, the kind that loves her kids regardless, she's this supportive, appreciative and wonderful kind that is needed when the kids go trans, gay or whichever way. I think, for a man it's a glorious card, for it demonstrates understanding, compassion and care, as much as peacefulness and also, it demonstrates how you really view yourself in that friendship, and that is a caregiver.
As for the Devil, subjugation is there, but it is, mostly, a willing submission and conscious bondage. Of course, devil lures us into that trap of hallucinating, intoxicating freedom, but we're happy to stay there, as long as our illusions are fed and nurtured. The devil offers a seemingly easy way out, while bargaining for a price, which in the end would be too high. He allows to be free and outspoken as long as it corresponds to his ideas. But as he always twists the ideas and bends them, we remain bound, enjoying this relationship, fuelled by self indulgence, greed and ...lies.
I feel I had to say that, cause this spread to me is wonderfully multidimensional and analyses your relationship in several ways.
Helena, thank so much for stopping by and commenting, I agree with you that this spread is 'wonderfully multidimensional and analyses [our] relationship in several ways." It has been a fascinating and mind-expanding experience working with Donny on this, and I am pretty sure that there will be further resonances for us both as we now reflect after hitting the deadline for publication! 😀 My sense is that we could both have written even more than we did... but I'm not sure the resulting post wouldn't have broken Substack!
A standout from your excellent observations above is this... "...but we're happy to stay there, as long as our illusions are fed and nurtured." In our exchange, Donny points to this card as preceding XVI·The Tower, and the necessity of that lightning stroke as a generator for change... it is also my belief that XV·The Devil is a non-sustainable position, but an essential part of our journeys towards unifying with divinity, and... everything changes... e.g. I just read in the news that DJT is rolling back the huge tariffs on imports, within hours almost of their imposition, there is a lesson in this somewhere (that will emerge in time) that I suspect will prove far more complex than the simple financial, and border control, incentives related to it... if that makes sense... or, to put it more plainly... what was the real reason?
🧐🕯️
Well, Devil is the logical predecessor of the Tower, cause we all know- it blows when the pressure gets too high. In this situation, too much is clearly detrimental. Excess leads to ruin, that's what I call the Dorian Gray rule. You cannot get away with everything, and in regards to His Idiotic Majesty and his court, the pressure is indeed approaching maximum. To clarify this, id suggest an additional position for the spread, which would be the root of ruin, or masked agenda- as you wish. It is, basically, a card of a hidden influence, that goes well with every spread. Hidden inner / outer influence is a helpful thing, based on my 16 years tarot experience.
Yeah, great point, and wouldn't we all like to see the picture in DJT's attic! Or maybe not... 😀
Yes, I take your point about the hidden card, it is very useful indeed! In our exchange I didn't, uniquely for me, feel that there was a hidden agenda between Donny and I, I felt everything was on the table.
A hidden card looking at MAGA, though, is a different post, and I feel that it would inflame things here that I am determined to avoid. So, respectfully, and with all love, can I ask you not to comment on this post with a card reading for it? Happy to discuss this privately if you feel I am being unfair, ok, but I don't want to turn this post into something else 🙂🙏🏼🕯️
Naaaah, good sir, I wasn't referring to magaaaaa stuff. It's just an observation in regards to all situations. There s always something we don't or can't quite see, right?) I have no desire to discuss politics:)
Thank you 🙏🏼
Yes, I love the 'hidden' card, 'what is unknown at this time?', 'what was unknown back at the turn of the last century?' (yep, haven't forgotten!). It has a great and mysterious quality to it, and in a live reading it can be a dynamite realisation for both Reader and Seeker if used at the right time (for me, usually at the end of a reading...).
Thanks for being here 🙏🏼😊
Here for you. Absolutely.
I can't put into words all of what I just read but this was hard for me lol. I wanted to read it because I was curious about the idea of using tarot in a situation like this as well as for helping me understand tarot better. I must say I almost gave up once or twice because I can be reactionary and emotionally charged when I feel like something is unjust. That's something that I want to work on though so I powered through it and to be honest my curiosity got the better of me. I'm glad I finished it! Sorry for rambling this off to you, but your input does a good job of explaining some of the things I picked up here too that i would have a hard time articulating on my own. I believe this tarot layout explains this situation perfectly and your comment helps sum that up very well!
Thank you to Phil and Donny for all the hard work. I as much as I struggled, emotionally, reading it, I think it helped me accomplish exactly what I intended it to.
Side note: I'd also like to add, because this stuck with me the whole time I read this. Living outside of the US doesn't mean you don't really know what's going on and it's not fair to try to use that against someone because you dont like the perspective they are showing you. It's like telling non parents their perspective on something having to do with kids doesn't matter because they don't have kids of their own.
I say this as a parent living in the US. My sister has no kids but yet her perspective is the one I seek out when it comes to kids especially mine lol. She knows enough of the situation to give me good perspective I never thought of because I'm in the middle of it and she has an outside lens. Do I always like what she says or agree with it 100%? Nope. However her perspective has never let me down.
Same goes for people outside of the US. I value those of you in other parts of the world so much because of your perspective of other places I haven't been, as much for what you see of the US from the outside. It's important and i appreciate your perspective. The mention of it in the first place as a means of rebuttal to something someone doesn't want to hear, is very telling.
I don't mean for this to be inappropriate or get too off the topic of tarot but I felt it was worth putting out there given that it did come up in this.
Sorry for the book on your comment, Helena! Your comment really stuck out with me.
Hi Kat :-)
Thanks for stopping by and commenting... a book is fine... I love reading!
I'm glad you were able to make it all the way through in the end, and if I am reading you rightly, you got some value from it, too? Which is always my hope either when I am reading, or writing :-)
The spread you enjoyed so much (I think it's brilliant, too!) was Donny's and I felt it worked beautifully for this reading.
Yes, I take your point about living outside of the US. In my case, this has more to do with my not actually facing the reality of day-to-day living in what strikes me at the moment as such an angrily divided nation. I still have an opinion, though, and am willing to share it (at length! :-D) but I do acknowledge the 'back-seat driver-iness' of sharing it, too. I have a very similar problem when I see what is happening in the UK... no longer living there, I feel that my opinion really carries less weight... ultimately, I am keen to avoid the "what do you know, you don't even live here!!!" type of unhelpful responses that are so common... y'know?
I saw a Substack post this very morning from an extremely angry Canadian, following their recent decision to cut ties with the US and I couldn't help feeling that disaster is looming ahead for more than just the US... this, I DO feel strongly about, but I also can't help feeling that the level of anger out there at the moment is so high that people have little interest in finding a solution, but much more in finding a reason to hate angrily... that prompted this post in the first place.
I was intrigued by your point above about being, "reactionary and emotionally charged when I feel like something is unjust" and was wondering how that impacts on your Tarot Readings (if it does)?
Coupling these 2 things together was such a good idea and yes the spread was so great. I loved it. I definitely got some value from it!
(This kind of goes with the value i got from it). I like to try and see both sides of things but boy do I struggle with that and just being angry that people can't see the hatred and lies and wanting to wash my hands of it. I am finding as I age i am very inquisitive and curious about so many things.
But, it's exhausting being here in this mess and being that way and all I see is people hurting people and seeing so many people that don't care. That division between even us and the rest of the world, too. Though, I have seen so many great comments from outside the US saying it's not Americans they are mad at, more so government, and they know many of us want better for everyone and that's amazing because I definitely support them being angry. (it helps me feel supported and somewhat united when all i see is division). I feel we all should be angry on some (hopefully healthy)level. I just know mine can get the better of me and I try to avoid that! This was a good, safe, exercise to try and test myself.
Your post helped me absorb more about the ins and outs of tarot too! I love hearing other people's perspective on the cards. That curiosity really kicks in then. I don't know that my reactionary and emotionally charged side gets involved with my readings. At least that I've noticed. I try to go into it open and ready to reflect. I've also never done one quite like this one you guys wrote about. I think that's why I've been gravitating to tarot so much lately. It helps me think and process as much as settling me down to be more open minded or hear things I'm not quite ready for or just don't want to 🤣.
"It helps me think and process as much as settling me down to be more open minded or hear things I'm not quite ready for or just don't want to 🤣."
Yep, me too!!! 😀
Ansolutely valid. It's quite alright although I had to reread it a couple of times)) I thought I offended you somehow.
Lol oh absolutely not offended 💜
I throughly enjoyed reading this and found it to be hugely hopeful because it demonstrates how, if we can all approach differences in opinion like this, the world would be a much more harmonious place! I hope others are inspired by this as I have been. Thank you both of you 🙏🏻✨
Thank you very much for commenting! I am really happy that you enjoyed the reading, and also found it inspirational, that is a lovely compliment, thanks so much. I think there is a lot to be said for taking the time to work through our differences in the pursuit of harmony, although, of course it isn't the only approach, it is my preferred one 🙂🙏🏼🕯️
You are very welcome. When I said "us" I was speaking as a collective because it fuels the collective realm. However I own that I found it to be honest and inspiring. Which I think you already knew! Have a Blessed weekend ✨✨
Thank you... I really appreciate those kind words! Yes, I hope it fuels the collective realm in a positive way, I would hate to add to the anger and resentment that is already out there.
Have a wonderful weekend on me, right? Free Wonderful Weekend Voucher attached to this message... 🙏🏼😉
Truly fascinating! Well done both of you! What a journey for you to do and for us to to read. It has opened up a lot for me to consider, ideas and questions. I send you both many Blessings 🙏✨🌱🦋
Thanks so much for such a positive piece of feedback, this was a nervy one to post, and your positivity has really lifted me, thanks, thanks, thanks 🙏🏼
I have read your lovely message after completing my morning weekend yoga flow session and during it I felt a strong wave of golden light wash over me. It was not from my own healing I could feel it from outside of me and not connected to Spirit. Reading your message I can now realise it belonging to you. Massive amounts of thank you!! I return to you Blessings of love and light and golden healing energy 🙏✨🌱🦋✨ have a fantastic weekend!
I have been loving your posts on your yoga flow sessions, and have fallen a little behind on them this week, whilst completing this one. I'm really looking forward to catching up with them over the next couple of days 👍🏼🧘🏼♂️🕯️
Thank you so much for your support Phil, that means a lot to me. Your tarot readings are inspirational to me and I am learning a lot from reading your take on them. Have a blissful weekend, Namaste 🙏✨✨✨
Hiya 👋🏼
What follows is an exchange on social media between Ana Luisa Hering and Donny... copied and pasted here with permission... it's a good exchange! Enjoy!
Ana writes:
Wow… Beautiful discussion and exceptionally mature. Thank you for that! My takes won’t be on individual interpretations but more on some cards and what they may be indicating.
The first that showed up, the Devil, is a treasure trove of nuances. The Devil doesn’t really exist: we ARE it. I believe it stands for parts of ourselves we don’t want to see either because they’re not socially accepted or because they bring us fear. And FEAR is to me, the operative word in all this reading. I’ll tell you how and why I saw that.
First, Phil’s Devil is wrapped, and we can clearly see he cannot fly. But this wrapping keeps him close to earth and somehow, protected. Being a mother, this reminded me A LOT of baby swaddling. Here’s what Wiki says about it:
“Some modern medical studies indicate that swaddling helps babies fall asleep and to remain asleep and helps to keep the baby in a supine position, which lowers the risk of sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).”
It’s a bit like accepting the limitations in exchange for protection. A sacrifice for a safer and reliable future in a way.
Then, we have the Empress. I do acknowledge that this card is seen as the epitome of creation, abundance, Venus, etc. However, I usually see this lady as representing Mother Nature. And we cannot forget that Nature, albeit magnificent, is not all “love and light”. Earthquakes, cyclones, tornadoes, tidal waves, etc. are also manifestations of the Empress. Even the most beautiful spectacle of life, birth, doesn’t come without some painful price. Nothing comes for free. One may wonder why Nature does that and I believe it’s mostly about balance. Shaking things up to go back to stability.
And that’s precisely what the bridge card (2 of Pentacles) brought as a common ground for you two. No pentacle should be dismissed in that juggling. Even opposing views have their weight and should be handled equally (pardon the pun). Not only that; since in your deck (Tarot of the Abyss) the two ladies look the same, it also suggests checking both sides of the same line of thought.
I have to be honest here: although I love the art of the Tarot of the Abyss, I always go back to our trusty RW deck for the 10 of Swords. The impaled man. Now, follow me here: if someone stabs you in the back once, or even twice, you’d try to run, right? Unless you’re sick or already dying, you wouldn’t let TEN Swords be thrown at you. You would look for cover. Or you would fight back. Unless you have no physical strength to run, you would only wait for this fate if you DIDN’T TRUST in your power of fight and resilience. Ultimately, this card often shows when self-esteem is very low, and you just succumb to the circumstances accepting your fate. A bit like the baby in the Devil card. Also, Swords are communication, the word, the info, and MEDIA is literally trying to crush people’s ability to discern, to think for themselves. This intense sword overload intends to turn people into functional idiots. But only if we let them.
Finally, the 5 of Pentacles. This hits home since I live in a poor country and this scene (without the snow) is quite common. The issue here is that the Powers That Be understood that it’s easier to work on the politics of hand me downs, of “welfarism”. It’s a quick fix, much faster and less complicated than to work on the basic structure of society, on education, on jobs, on decent salaries, on slow but steady progress. It’s like that old saying “give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime”. That creates a society who wants to be given help but has no knowledge nor confidence to work for it. Usually, they look for heroes and saviors instead of a person who shows the hard way to success.
Fear. Fear of fighting, fear of not being good enough, fear of rejection. All that is largely exploited by the ones in power. The making of America great again is a neat concept but somewhat contradictory: I’m all for the MAKING, which invites participation of all: but the AGAIN implies that we can go back in time which can’t be done. Ideally, one should see and understand that everything changes, and the handling of these changes must be done in different ways. Learning how is a completely different story though…
Thank you Phil and Donny for reading my takes ❤
Donny writes:
Ana Luisa Hering - love this. ❤️ The Devil is incredibly simple. And indecipherably complex. “Nuances” indeed. And perfect for this read.
To the 10 of Swords — I don’t think it’s a matter of allowing the stabbing… to me the 10 is the indicator nothing has stopped this person from arriving where they finally lay to rest. Swords be damned. Wounds be damned. I’ll crawl as far as this path leads me because I believe I need to see it to the end.
And so, The End.
The next cycle is beginning. What new ideas will it bring to Mind? ❤️
Thank you for your contribution.
Ana writes:
Donny Riley, a bit like fighting even if it kills me ? That's an interesting take. Funny you mention that. I'm Brazilian and there's an expression in Portuguese that would translate as "to die on the beach". It's used when you fight for something but lose it at the very last moment. You swim for miles but end up dying on the shore.
Hiya 👋🏼
Later in the day, and I see that you and Donny have already had a great exchange… thanks for adding your thoughts, which, as always, are great to read.
First… that’s a great observation about XV·The Devil. I totally agree with your point, “The Devil doesn’t really exist: we ARE it”, and feel that embracing it is an essential part of all of our journeys through life at one time or another. At the moment, the energy around this is high for many of us, I feel, because of the hugely emotive movements in the world daily.
Swaddling… wow! Wrapped securely in the comfort of our own bindings… this is a really new idea to me, thanks so much… it is reading comments like this one that made me want to start a Substack in the first place! There is such a lot to this idea, and I will be reflecting on this over the next few days as I work through some stuff for my next post… thanks for lighting my blue touchpaper!
“Nature, albeit magnificent, is not all “love and light””… yes, this was me realising this viscerally as I reflected on this reading and Donny’s observations… there is a legacy Tarot Reader in me that has never properly moved beyond the ‘love and light’ meaning of III·The Empress… another reflection for me here to absorb and develop. Thanks to you both 🙏🏼
Yes, totally take your point about 2 of Pentacles.
I understand what you are saying about the 10 of Swords, and my take on it here (and the use of the Abyss 10 of Swords that I chose for this shuffle) was guided by the purpose of this reading, which was to relate what I saw to the relationship Donny might have felt with this card, given his position in our discussion. I also saw the classic RWS 10 of Swords image when I was preparing the reading, with the Stars and Stripes replacing the red cloth covering the figure, but that felt like a distraction from this reading’s purpose (i.e. political polemic!), so didn’t add that here.
“Usually, they look for heroes and saviors instead of a person who shows the hard way to success.” Yes, I see this argument, and wonder if part of the success of MAGA has been the provision of that hero to so many who are simply exhausted by day-to-day survival, no longer having the will (or time) to learn how to fish. I don’t include Donny in this reasoning, as I know clearly from his reading that this isn’t the case for him… but, I think you’re right, and that energy is definitely out there.
“Ideally, one should see and understand that everything changes, and the handling of these changes must be done in different ways.” Is the critical point here… and to ensure this happens, there has to be some mutual understanding and acceptance of those different ways between those so divided. Which directly relates to the purpose of this reading, thank you!
Thanks, Ana, as always, for such brilliant and thought provoking comments!